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動態
本期仁醫醫療特別邀請到國際著名脊柱專家Daniel J. Rosenthal教授做專題訪問。Rosenthal教授現任德國巴德洪堡高陶努斯醫院脊柱外科主任，曾擔任德國脊柱學會主席(2013年)。
Daniel J. Rosenthal教授出生於阿根廷並在阿根廷完成了醫學學業，畢業後他赴德國法蘭克福大學進行進一步的醫學研究，並取得博士學位。他從 1992 年到 1996 年擔任德國法蘭克福大學附屬醫院神經外科主任和副院長。在胸腔鏡脊柱手術方麵，他有極大的成就。
精彩回顧
戳視頻 搶先看
1、您出生於阿根廷並在阿根廷完成了醫學學業，能否分享一下您早年在祖國的經曆？
As you was born and finished your medical study in Argentina, could you please share with us your early experience in your home country?
我在英文學校接受了14年的教育，後來我在家鄉羅薩裏奧學習醫學。當時的羅薩裏奧是阿根廷的第二大城市，現在是第三大城市了。24歲那年我通過考試正式成為了一名醫生。40年nian後hou回hui想xiang起qi來lai，我wo在zai家jia鄉xiang度du過guo了le最zui美mei好hao的de時shi光guang，我wo有you很hen多duo陪pei伴ban我wo的de朋peng友you，我wo的de學xue習xi充chong實shi，空kong餘yu時shi間jian我wo會hui去qu打da橄gan欖lan球qiu，所suo以yi我wo的de時shi間jian安an排pai得de很hen滿man。
I was educated for fourteen years in an English school. And after that I started my medicine studies in my hometown, that's Rosario. At that time, it was the second biggest city in Argentina, now I think it's the third. And at the age of 24, I was fully approved as a medical doctor. So those were, forty years later, the best times I had. A lot of friends, a lot of stress with study and tests, and apart from that I was playing rugby, so I had a pretty occupied timetable.
2、畢業後，您為什麼會選擇赴德深造並決定留在德國開啟您的醫學職業生涯？
After graduation, why did you choose to further your study in Germany and decide to stay there to start your career in medicine?
雖然我出生在阿根廷，但是我的家族、我的父母都是德國人。我和我的兄弟是我們家族700多年來唯一不在德國出生的成員，我們的家譜也可以證實。
我wo選xuan擇ze到dao德de國guo深shen造zao的de原yuan因yin很hen簡jian單dan，因yin為wei我wo想xiang在zai更geng好hao的de教jiao育yu環huan境jing裏li完wan成cheng學xue業ye。所suo以yi當dang時shi我wo幾ji乎hu把ba所suo有you的de申shen請qing信xin都dou投tou去qu了le德de國guo的de學xue校xiao。我wo本ben來lai也ye有you機ji會hui去qu西xi班ban牙ya或huo者zhe瑞rui士shi的de學xue校xiao，但dan是shi當dang時shi我wo有you一yi位wei在zai法fa蘭lan克ke福fu的de舅jiu舅jiu，他ta是shi城cheng中zhong資zi曆li最zui深shen的de醫yi師shi，他ta和he我wo說shuo：“你來德國吧，我會盡力指導你的學業”。所(suo)以(yi)我(wo)在(zai)德(de)國(guo)的(de)前(qian)十(shi)年(nian)我(wo)的(de)舅(jiu)舅(jiu)非(fei)常(chang)照(zhao)顧(gu)我(wo)。其(qi)實(shi)我(wo)在(zai)德(de)國(guo)完(wan)成(cheng)專(zhuan)科(ke)進(jin)修(xiu)後(hou)已(yi)經(jing)很(hen)熟(shu)悉(xi)德(de)國(guo)醫(yi)院(yuan)的(de)日(ri)常(chang)工(gong)作(zuo)流(liu)程(cheng)，而(er)且(qie)當(dang)時(shi)我(wo)的(de)事(shi)業(ye)也(ye)在(zai)快(kuai)速(su)起(qi)步(bu)階(jie)段(duan)。這(zhe)就(jiu)是(shi)我(wo)選(xuan)擇(ze)留(liu)在(zai)德(de)國(guo)繼(ji)續(xu)醫(yi)學(xue)事(shi)業(ye)的(de)原(yuan)因(yin)。
I was born in Argentina, but my family, it's a German from father and mother's side. And in fact my brother and I were the only ones born outside Germany in almost 700 years of history that we were able to follow back in our genealogy. The reason why I chose Germany was simply that I wanted to have a better education in my specialist career. And that's why I sent all my applications, not only to Germany, but the vast majority of them were sent to Germany. I had also the chance to be accepted in Spain or in Switzerland. But at that time, I had in Frankfurt an uncle of mine who was the oldest physician practicing medicine in the city. So he told me, “Just come over here and I will try to guide you and help you.” And he did it for almost ten years after I arrived in Germany.
In fact, I forgot to say I decided then, when I finished with my specialization, I was already pretty much involved in a clinic daily routine and I was just climbing positions, so that was the reason why I stayed here and continued my medical career.
3、您為什麼學醫，又為什麼決定專注於脊柱微創手術呢？
Why did you decide to pursue a career in medicine and why, in particular, did you decide to specialize in the minimally invasive spine surgery?
我wo一yi直zhi都dou對dui醫yi學xue或huo者zhe說shuo自zi然ran科ke學xue感gan興xing趣qu，我wo覺jiao得de研yan究jiu動dong植zhi物wu的de自zi然ran生sheng命ming周zhou期qi是shi非fei常chang讓rang人ren著zhe迷mi的de。讀du完wan高gao中zhong後hou我wo就jiu決jue定ding從cong事shi和he自zi然ran科ke學xue相xiang關guan的de職zhi業ye。當dang時shi我wo對dui獸shou醫yi學xue不bu太tai感gan興xing趣qu，因yin為wei阿e根gen廷ting的de獸shou醫yi學xue是shi個ge很hen狹xia窄zhai的de學xue科ke。這zhe個ge學xue科ke與yu農nong工gong業ye有you關guan，獸shou醫yi的de大da部bu分fen時shi間jian都dou在zai照zhao顧gu牛niu群qun和he豬zhu群qun，它ta們men是shi阿e根gen廷ting農nong業ye經jing濟ji中zhong最zui重zhong要yao的de組zu成cheng部bu分fen。所suo以yi我wo的de選xuan擇ze很hen有you限xian，實shi驗yan室shi的de工gong作zuo也ye不bu適shi合he我wo，我wo覺jiao得de它ta很hen無wu聊liao，所suo以yi最zui後hou我wo決jue定ding學xue醫yi。至zhi於yu為wei什shen麼me選xuan擇ze專zhuan注zhu於yu微wei創chuang手shou術shu，其qi實shi我wo並bing沒mei有you特te意yi選xuan擇ze專zhuan攻gong微wei創chuang，更geng多duo的de是shi一yi種zhong機ji緣yuan巧qiao合he。九jiu十shi年nian代dai初chu，我wo做zuo了le很hen多duo脊ji柱zhu前qian路lu手shou術shu。1991年(nian)我(wo)和(he)我(wo)的(de)兄(xiong)弟(di)共(gong)同(tong)發(fa)明(ming)了(le)胸(xiong)腔(qiang)鏡(jing)手(shou)術(shu)。從(cong)那(na)時(shi)起(qi)，我(wo)就(jiu)自(zi)然(ran)而(er)然(ran)地(di)專(zhuan)注(zhu)於(yu)現(xian)在(zai)的(de)微(wei)創(chuang)手(shou)術(shu)了(le)，因(yin)為(wei)這(zhe)種(zhong)前(qian)路(lu)手(shou)術(shu)對(dui)脊(ji)柱(zhu)的(de)損(sun)傷(shang)比(bi)較(jiao)小(xiao)。
Medicine was always, let's say natural sciences, was always an interesting topic for me, and I found it fascinating to read about the normal cycles of plants or animals. And I think when I was finishing high school, I already took the decision, that I wanted to pursue some careers related to natural sciences. Veterinarian medicine didn't attract me so much, at that time at least, because in Argentina it's a very narrow field. That's mainly to do with the agro-industry, so the majority of the time you are looking after cows and pigs who are the most important economical branch of the Argentinian agriculture economy. So I didn't have too much left over, but laboratory was not an option for me, because it was pretty boring from my point of view, so I decided to get into medicine. That was the reason why I decided to apply for a career in the medical sector.
And concerning minimally invasive surgery, I didn't decide myself to specialize in minimally invasive, it was more a lucky circumstance, because at the beginning of the nineties, I was working a lot with anterior approaches to the spine, and together with my brother we developed the thorascopic technique, that was 1991. So since then I've been mainly or formally pushed into what it is called minimally invasive surgery, in this situation, it would be less aggressive approaches to the spine.
4、您的早年經曆如何塑造你的成就？
How did your early youth experience shape your success?
wodezaonianjingliduiwosuoqudedechengjiuyingxiangbuda。wotianshengshiyigeshanchanglixingfenxideren，woduishiwuchongmanhaoqi，xihuanduifuzayinanwentixungenwendi。zhengyinruci，wodangshikaishiyanjiuquanxindeshoushurulu。wojiaodezijihenxingyun，nenggouyoujihuijinrujizhuwaikezhegedangshiganggangqibudelingyu。zongeryanzhi，wobujiaodewodezaonianjingliduiwodezhiyeshengya，haiyouwozaijizhulingyugengyunjin30年取得的成功有太大的影響。
I don't think that my youth experience had a big influence in success. I am by nature a very analytical person, I am curious, I try to find some logical explanations for things that maybe a little bit confused or complicated. And that's the reason why I started developing approaches that at that time didn't exist. I was lucky because I just had the opportunity to get into a field that was just starting to progress and to expand, that’s spine surgery, but I don't think that my youth experience had much influence in the career and the results of almost thirty years of medical practice in spine in my case.
5、您是否有在其他領域投入了您的時間和專業技能？
Do you have other fields in which you are investing your time and know how?
我和我的朋友在阿根廷投資了一個農場，這個農場運營了大概有10年。這是一件非常有趣的事情，我能盡我所能地投入我的時間和知識。
另ling一yi個ge方fang向xiang是shi在zai脊ji柱zhu領ling域yu，但dan與yu軟ruan件jian開kai發fa有you關guan。我wo投tou資zi了le一yi家jia做zuo脊ji柱zhu測ce量liang和he分fen析xi軟ruan件jian的de德de國guo公gong司si。我wo們men計ji劃hua開kai發fa出chu一yi個ge先xian進jin的de係xi統tong，幫bang助zhu外wai科ke醫yi生sheng在zai沒mei有you導dao航hang設she備bei的de情qing況kuang下xia進jin行xing手shou術shu導dao航hang。這zhe個ge軟ruan件jian係xi統tong是shi一yi種zhong混hun合he技ji術shu，預yu計ji在zai今jin年nian年nian底di問wen世shi。
Yes, I'm still binding part of it to Argentina where there is a project of agriculture running there since more or less ten years now, together with some of my friends that are also partners, that's a very interesting thing where I'm also dedicating my time and my know how as far as I can. And the other one is in spine field but linked to software. That's a German company that has the software for spinal measurement and analysis. We are pretty far advanced to develop a system that will allow the surgeons to navigate surgery without a navigation device. That's a hybrid and I think we will show it by the end of the year.
6、在您的職業生涯中，是否有對您來說很重要的導師？他們教會您什麼，是如何啟發您的呢？
Who have been your greatest influences? What have they taught you and how have they inspired you?
年少時，我的父母對我影響深遠。後來是我已故的神經外科老師Lorenz教授，還有當時的骨科主任Schmitt教授。Schmittjiaoshoushenkediyingxianglewoduijizhujibingderenshi。dangranwodetongshihebingrenduiwodeyingxiangyehenda，tamenzongshigeiwofankuiyijian。worenweitongshihebingrenshiyishengzuizhongyaodedaoshi，yinweiyixueshidongtaide，tashikedouzaibianhua，niyongyuandoubukenengzaiyixuelingyuneizuodaowanmei。wanmeikansiyibuzhiyao，shizechubukeji。suoyizaiyixuelingyuzhenzhengshenkeyingxiangwomendeshi，womennengfouhuoderangzijihebingrendoumanyidezhiliaoxiaoguo。
For sure my greater influences were my parents in my young ages, followed by my teacher in neurosurgery that’s Prof. Lorenz who passed away many years ago, and the head of the orthopedic department at that time, who's Prof. Schmitt who also had a big influence in my way of interpreting spine diseases. And the rest are the influence and the feedback I get from my colleagues and from the patients. I think that the last one, the colleagues and the patients are the most important influences you have in medicine, because that's a dynamic process, it is always changing, and you never achieve the perfection in what you are doing in medicine. You may be close to it, but it will never be perfect. So the real influence you have in medicine is, if you are satisfied and if the patients are satisfied with the results of your surgery or your treatment.
7、2013年您當選成為德國脊柱學會(DWG)主席，能否談談德國脊柱學會在德國醫院和專家中的非凡地位？
In 2013, you were elected as the President of the German Spine Society(DWG), could you please talk about the importance of DWG to the hospitals and specialists in Germany?
德國脊柱學會彙聚了一眾骨科醫生、chuangshangwaikeyishengheshenjingwaikeyishengduoniandenulichengguo。zaideguo，zhesangexuekehejizhujibingxixixiangguan。deguoyouyigechuangjianlewushiduoniandejizhuyanjiuxuehui，shishijieshangzuigulaodejizhuxuehui。shangshijijiushiniandaimo，deguochuxianlediergejizhuxuehui——脊柱外科醫生學會。多年來兩個學會互融互洽，2000年初雙方理念達成一致，德國脊柱學會應運而生。Michael Mayer教jiao授shou作zuo為wei德de國guo脊ji柱zhu學xue會hui的de創chuang始shi主zhu席xi，他ta為wei學xue會hui的de發fa展zhan指zhi明ming了le方fang向xiang，此ci後hou德de國guo脊ji柱zhu學xue會hui一yi直zhi在zai蓬peng勃bo發fa展zhan。德de國guo脊ji柱zhu學xue會hui是shi歐ou洲zhou最zui大da的de脊ji柱zhu學xue會hui，我wo認ren為wei它ta的de規gui模mo和he北bei美mei脊ji柱zhu協xie會hui相xiang當dang，同tong樣yang擁yong有you著zhe享xiang譽yu世shi界jie的de知zhi名ming度du。德de國guo脊ji柱zhu學xue會hui提ti供gong了le一yi個ge很hen好hao的de平ping台tai，讓rang所suo有you的de同tong行xing能neng夠gou互hu相xiang交jiao流liu，彼bi此ci分fen享xiang保bao守shou治zhi療liao、手術治療脊柱疾病的心得。我們也為護士開展了相關的脊柱治療培訓項目。2013年我們在法蘭克福開展了第一次研討會，把脊柱疾病的護理納入到德國脊柱學會的培訓項目中，這個項目已經進行了近10年。
德國脊柱學會的重要性體現在我們的話語權，我們能夠和醫院、德de國guo衛wei生sheng部bu以yi及ji一yi些xie國guo外wai組zu織zhi機ji構gou在zai同tong一yi語yu境jing下xia交jiao流liu。從cong而er避bi免mian病bing人ren一yi邊bian聽ting神shen經jing科ke醫yi生sheng解jie釋shi治zhi療liao方fang案an，一yi邊bian聽ting骨gu科ke醫yi生sheng分fen析xi病bing情qing，雖sui然ran雙shuang方fang意yi見jian不bu合he的de現xian象xiang在zai全quan世shi界jie普pu遍bian存cun在zai。我wo們men開kai展zhan了le一yi個ge嚴yan格ge的de培pei訓xun項xiang目mu，完wan成cheng培pei訓xun的de人ren員yuan會hui獲huo得de證zheng書shu。這zhe份fen證zheng書shu雖sui然ran不bu是shi官guan方fang認ren可ke證zheng書shu，但dan對dui於yu病bing人ren來lai說shuo，這zhe份fen證zheng書shu說shuo明ming了le醫yi生sheng掌zhang握wo了le一yi定ding程cheng度du的de知zhi識shi，能neng夠gou有you效xiao治zhi療liao脊ji柱zhu疾ji病bing。
我wo們men為wei醫yi院yuan設she置zhi了le兩liang種zhong證zheng書shu，考kao察cha醫yi院yuan工gong作zuo質zhi量liang和he醫yi院yuan設she備bei情qing況kuang，這zhe兩liang種zhong評ping判pan指zhi標biao是shi基ji於yu醫yi院yuan規gui模mo和he治zhi療liao病bing種zhong而er設she定ding的de。病bing人ren在zai小xiao醫yi院yuan和he大da醫yi院yuan接jie受shou的de醫yi療liao服fu務wu是shi不bu一yi樣yang的de，設she備bei有you限xian的de小xiao醫yi院yuan隻zhi能neng治zhi療liao簡jian單dan的de疾ji病bing，而er大da醫yi院yuan能neng夠gou治zhi療liao更geng多duo種zhong類lei繁fan多duo、病程長的疾病，比如創傷、腫瘤和複雜的脊柱疾病。我們的證書分為不同等級，有一級、二er級ji和he三san級ji。醫yi院yuan綜zong合he質zhi量liang最zui高gao是shi一yi級ji，最zui低di是shi三san級ji。所suo以yi德de國guo脊ji柱zhu學xue會hui的de重zhong要yao性xing就jiu體ti現xian在zai為wei脊ji柱zhu外wai科ke的de需xu求qiu發fa聲sheng，無wu論lun何he時shi都dou堅jian決jue捍han衛wei其qi立li場chang。
The DWG is the result of long years of trying to match the interests of orthopedics and trauma surgeons together with neurosurgeons. Those are the three main specialties dealing with spine diseases in Germany at least. We had in Germany for more than fifty years a society called the Society of Investigation in Spine that was I think the oldest society related to spine worldwide. And at the end of the nineties, a second society appeared, and that was the Society of Spine Surgeons. So for a lot of years, the research societies were not competing, but trying to adapt to each other, and at the beginning of 2000, the interests of both societies were similar, and we managed to create the German Spine Society. At that time, Michael Mayer was the one who leaded that way or showed the way to follow, and since then this society hasn't stopped to grow. It's the biggest spine society in Europe and I think it’s the biggest spine society or at least as big as the North American Spine Society, although both of them have a very high level of recognition worldwide. The spine society has now got under one umbrella, all the persons that are willing to share their knowledge, but also their field of expertise in spine treatment, not only operative but also conservative.
We have even started to develop a program for nurses related to spine treatment. And in 2013 in Frankfurt we started with the first symposium where nursing was included in the scientific program of the spine society, and this has been kept for almost last ten years as well. Now the importance we have with this society is that, we are now in the position to talk with the hospitals with the German health authorities or with other groups outside Germany with one language. It is not that the neurosurgeons are explaining something about treatment on the left, and the orthopedics on the right, and they are struggling against each other as it happens in lots of countries worldwide. Here we have a strict program of education that leads you to a certificate, and that gives you at least there's no official recognition for quality, but it's important as I told you, for the patients, if you have that certificate, it means that you've reached a certain amount of knowledge capable to treat effectively and successfully spine diseases. From there, we've moved two certificates for the hospitals, so we have a structure that looks after the quality of the work you are doing at the hospital, how is the hospital equipped and that's based also the degree of structural and also medical part you are treating in the hospital. So it is not the same to have a patient treated in a very little hospital with low infrastructure where they are only treating simple cases compared with a bigger hospital where they are dealing with a lot of pathologies that are also time consuming, and also needed for the population like trauma or tumors or any kind of complex spine surgery. It has a different level of recognition. And we've graded that in Grade one, two and three, being one the clinics were the highest complexity, and three were the lowest one. So the importance of the DWG is that we have now a society that is expressing the needs of the spine surgery, but also defending their positions against whoever and whenever it's needed.
8、在胸腔鏡脊柱手術方麵，您有著極大的成就，請問對此類手術您有什麼心得分享？
You have great achievements in thoracoscopic spine surgery, what insights would you like to share about performing this kind of surgery?
我(wo)認(ren)為(wei)胸(xiong)腔(qiang)鏡(jing)脊(ji)柱(zhu)手(shou)術(shu)本(ben)身(shen)並(bing)不(bu)特(te)別(bie)，隻(zhi)是(shi)需(xu)要(yao)外(wai)科(ke)醫(yi)生(sheng)學(xue)習(xi)使(shi)用(yong)手(shou)術(shu)器(qi)械(xie)，因(yin)為(wei)這(zhe)類(lei)器(qi)械(xie)的(de)長(chang)度(du)比(bi)開(kai)放(fang)手(shou)術(shu)中(zhong)常(chang)用(yong)的(de)長(chang)得(de)多(duo)。這(zhe)項(xiang)技(ji)術(shu)還(hai)有(you)一(yi)個(ge)問(wen)題(ti)，就(jiu)是(shi)它(ta)采(cai)取(qu)的(de)是(shi)前(qian)入(ru)路(lu)，對(dui)於(yu)不(bu)敢(gan)做(zuo)前(qian)入(ru)路(lu)手(shou)術(shu)的(de)醫(yi)生(sheng)來(lai)說(shuo)這(zhe)就(jiu)是(shi)弊(bi)端(duan)。
因為當時歐洲的醫學界認為前入路手術都是一些高難度、weixiandeshoushu。danshishiqiaqiaxiangfan，qianrulushitongwangjizhuzuizhijiederulu，erqiezaizhiliaoyixiejizhujibingshang，tadechuangshangxinggengxiao。shuxizhangwozhexiangjishuzuizhongyaodeshiduohuashijianxuexi，huodegengdadexinxin。
1991年我研發出這項技術時，很多同行覺得操作這項手術要承受很大壓力，而且對於他們來說前入路手術是一個全新的、未(wei)知(zhi)的(de)領(ling)域(yu)，所(suo)以(yi)他(ta)們(men)把(ba)病(bing)人(ren)推(tui)薦(jian)到(dao)我(wo)的(de)診(zhen)所(suo)。當(dang)然(ran)我(wo)非(fei)常(chang)感(gan)謝(xie)他(ta)們(men)的(de)推(tui)薦(jian)，經(jing)過(guo)大(da)量(liang)的(de)手(shou)術(shu)積(ji)累(lei)，讓(rang)我(wo)在(zai)胸(xiong)腔(qiang)鏡(jing)手(shou)術(shu)治(zhi)療(liao)胸(xiong)椎(zhui)退(tui)行(xing)性(xing)疾(ji)病(bing)方(fang)麵(mian)得(de)到(dao)高(gao)度(du)認(ren)可(ke)。
It's difficult to say. I think it's nothing special on the technique, except that the surgeons have to learn how to work with the longer instruments than they are used to in an open surgery. One of the biggest problems, or I don't call it a problem, but the drawbacks of the technique is that, it uses an anterior approach. That's a drawback for those who are afraid to perform anterior approaches, because anterior approaches at least in Europe are surrounded by a sort of aura that means a difficult surgery, dangerous surgery and it's exactly the opposite. It's the most direct approach to the spine and it's the less aggressive technique to treat some spinal diseases. The most important thing is to dedicate some time and use that time to gain confidence in order to get used to this kind of technique and this kind of approach, there is nothing spectacular in the technique itself. The result is that, when I developed that in 1991, a lot of people had decided that they don't have the intention to deal with stress and with all the unknown world of anterior approaches for them, so they are sending the patients to my clinic which I appreciate a lot. And that's the reason why I got such a big recognition concerning thoracoscopic approaches mainly for the degenerative disease of the thoracic spine.
9、能否分享一下您治療過的最具挑戰性且最印象深刻的病例？
Could you please share one case that you think is the most challenging and impressive one?
wohuixianglehenduoyiqiandebingli，danshiwozhendezhaobuchuyigezuizhongyaohuozheshuozuilingrenyinxiangshenkedebingli，nikenenghuijingyayubingbiandefuzachengduhuozhechurenyiliaodeshoushuxiaoguo。danshiworenweimeiyigebinglidoufeichangzhongyao。qishibuyongbeibinglixiadao，bifangshuohenduorenkandaopianzishihuixianruweizhujiaodebingqinghenfuza。
我認為我們這裏是沒有令人印象深刻的“病例”，但有令人印象深刻的“手術效果”，yinweiyoushishoushushunlidanshuhouxiaoguobururenyi，huoshishoushujinxingdebutaishunli，danshuhouxiaoguochuhuyiliao。worenweiduiyuyishenglaishuo，meiyigebinglidouhenzhongyaoqieyinxiangshenke。wokeyigeinizhanshidaliangchenggongshoushuzhaichudazhuijianpantuchudebingli，woyekeyigeinizhanshiyigeyouxiaozhuijianpantuchudaozhiyanzhongshenjinggongnengzhangaidebingli，zheleishoushunandubuda，bingrenshoushuhoujiuwanquankangfule，suoyilingrenyinxiangshenkezhegebiaozhunzaiwokanlaishixiangduide。
When I read the question I was trying to remember one. But I really don't have one case that is the most important one if you call it like that or the most impressive, because it may be impressive because of the size of the pathology, it may be impressive because of the results you have achieved with the surgery. But I think every single case for itself is important. It may be not so subjective to surprise, or for a lot of people be extremely complicated when you see the picture. I don't think that there are impressive cases in what we are doing. Maybe we have impressive results because we don't expect to have a bad result in a good surgery or a good result in a bad surgery. But I think every single case is for the surgeon important and impressive. I can show you tons of big discs that have been successfully operated, but I can show you also one small disc causing serious neurological deficits, and after a surgery that's technically really not demanding, the patient recovers completely, so the term impressive is a very relative one in my opinion.
10、至今您最自豪的職業成就是什麼，為什麼？
What is your proudest career achievement to date and why?
我(wo)覺(jiao)得(de)讓(rang)我(wo)最(zui)引(yin)以(yi)為(wei)豪(hao)的(de)就(jiu)是(shi)身(shen)邊(bian)每(mei)天(tian)和(he)我(wo)共(gong)事(shi)的(de)同(tong)事(shi)。我(wo)們(men)不(bu)僅(jin)僅(jin)是(shi)一(yi)個(ge)部(bu)門(men)，還(hai)是(shi)一(yi)個(ge)團(tuan)隊(dui)，管(guan)理(li)團(tuan)隊(dui)需(xu)要(yao)很(hen)多(duo)的(de)精(jing)力(li)和(he)經(jing)驗(yan)。我(wo)的(de)團(tuan)隊(dui)就(jiu)是(shi)我(wo)最(zui)自(zi)豪(hao)的(de)成(cheng)就(jiu)。除(chu)了(le)行(xing)政(zheng)管(guan)理(li)上(shang)的(de)成(cheng)就(jiu)，我(wo)還(hai)很(hen)自(zi)豪(hao)這(zhe)40年來病人和同事對我的認可。
I've also been thinking about that question as well. I believe that my proudest achievement is the group of people I have around me working with me every day. I don't call it a department, but it's a team, and to keep that team working, you need a lot of efforts, a lot of experience, and I think that’s the proudest achievement I have. That's the part of the administrative part and the rest is the recognition of the patients and my colleagues during the last forty years.
11、您的科室一年的手術量有多少？以及您至今做了多少台胸腔鏡脊柱手術？
Gloryren adds: How many spine surgery that are performed in your department every year and how many thoracoscopic spine surgery that you have performed so far?
現在我們一年的手術量是1100到1200台，這隻是脊柱手術的數量。可能這個手術量在中國不足為奇，但是在德國已經算很多了。到2021年為止，我已經主刀了3000多台胸腔鏡脊柱手術。
We are performing now about eleven to twelve hundred surgeries a year. And that amount is being done for spine surgeons. For China, these numbers are not so big, but for Germany, they're big enough. I've just made a summary until 2021, and I went above 3,000 thoracoscopic spine surgery performed by myself.
12、您對年輕的脊柱外科醫生有什麼建議？
What advice would you give to young spine surgeons?
保持好奇心、忠於你的身份和職責、永(yong)遠(yuan)相(xiang)信(xin)一(yi)切(qie)皆(jie)有(you)可(ke)能(neng)。這(zhe)是(shi)我(wo)給(gei)年(nian)輕(qing)脊(ji)柱(zhu)外(wai)科(ke)醫(yi)生(sheng)的(de)三(san)個(ge)建(jian)議(yi)，也(ye)是(shi)我(wo)職(zhi)業(ye)生(sheng)涯(ya)裏(li)一(yi)直(zhi)奉(feng)行(xing)的(de)準(zhun)則(ze)。如(ru)果(guo)我(wo)沒(mei)有(you)保(bao)持(chi)好(hao)奇(qi)心(xin)，隻(zhi)是(shi)隨(sui)波(bo)逐(zhu)流(liu)，跟(gen)著(zhe)主(zhu)任(ren)醫(yi)師(shi)或(huo)者(zhe)其(qi)他(ta)同(tong)行(xing)做(zuo)一(yi)樣(yang)的(de)手(shou)術(shu)，我(wo)就(jiu)不(bu)會(hui)發(fa)明(ming)出(chu)胸(xiong)腔(qiang)鏡(jing)手(shou)術(shu)還(hai)有(you)其(qi)他(ta)入(ru)路(lu)的(de)手(shou)術(shu)。要(yao)常(chang)問(wen)自(zi)己(ji)：zhejianshikexingma？zhejianshikenengzuodechengma？ruguonibunengjianchichuxin，houguojiangshiyishiwucheng，jishiqianfangkunnanzhongzhong，zhiyaowomenjianchi，shiqingjiuhuiyouzhuanji。
Be curious, be committed to what you are and what you are doing, and never accept the words “it's not possible”. I think those are the three advice that I can give them, and those are the three things I've always been doing during my career. I wouldn't have developed thoracoscopic surgery or all the other approaches I'm using if I would have just done what my chief was doing or what the others are doing, and that was the result of a curiosity. Can it be done? Is it possible to do it? And if you don't stick to your plan, you will end up doing nothing, so even if you have drawbacks, you should keep working on it and it will happen that as some sort of solution appears in the horizon and leads you to the solution of the problems you are facing.
13、假如您不從醫的話，您會從事什麼行業？
What would you have been if you had not been a medical doctor?
這是個好問題，我想可能我會成為一名農業工程師。越是了解這個行業，你就會發現它還涉及生物知識、商業知識，而且這個行業有很大的空間讓你發揮創意。現在我們在研究如何以更快速、經jing濟ji實shi惠hui的de方fang式shi運yun輸shu農nong作zuo物wu，長chang途tu運yun輸shu農nong作zuo物wu對dui於yu阿e根gen廷ting來lai說shuo是shi個ge問wen題ti，我wo想xiang中zhong國guo應ying該gai也ye有you同tong樣yang的de問wen題ti。我wo們men可ke以yi等deng時shi機ji成cheng熟shu再zai討tao論lun這zhe個ge技ji術shu，現xian在zai它ta還hai是shi個ge雛chu形xing。
Another good question, probably I would have been an agricultural engineer, because the more I get involved with the topic, you have the biological parts, you have the entrepreneur part and you have also the room enough to develop new things. So in fact, we are working on an idea I have in order to have crops transported in a very quick and cheap way, that's a problem in Argentina because of the long distances, and it should be a problem in China as well, but we'll talk about it when the time is mature for it, now it's just a project.
14、除了學醫外，您還有什麼興趣愛好？
What are your interests and hobbies outside medicine?
我的愛好就是足球、旅遊和烹飪。
That's easy, soccer, traveling and cooking.
